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Manners maketh the man, but ...Thanks for that Cam,<br /><br />Manners maketh the man, but apparently not the Cam.<br /><br />People can read for themselves that it was your own declarations about my position that lead to my offering my own actual views. I even asked for feedback from you and tried to engage in a dialog. <br /><br />I am still more than happy to do that with others here.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Feathered, BS, arrogant nobody, great philosopher, irrational, nit wit Psi<br /><br />- - -<br /><br />In the meantime I wonder if JM will finally address my points about his post?Psiloiordinaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235629211359287564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3540071429816533590.post-12661889789751490492012-05-25T15:21:25.574-07:002012-05-25T15:21:25.574-07:00The one demonstrating arrogance and hubris is you ...The one demonstrating arrogance and hubris is you my fine feathered friend. Give up the "your giving Christians a bad name" BS for someone who cares what some arrogant nobody like you thinks. That isn't me. <br /><br /><br />So the great philosopher Psi doesn't see a need to explain the existence of right and wrong. So you do what it is you accuse Christians of doing. Believing something without a sound rational. That's irrational. You are treading on ground that is well gone over by philosophers throughout the ages but a nit wit like you doesn't seem to think it's a problem. Well then fine. But you're going to have to stop accusing Christians of doing what it is you have done. Believing in things without a solid rational foundation for those beliefs. <br /><br />We're done. <br /><br />I'm bored of you now.camhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10115055485214265764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3540071429816533590.post-87993354711011143582012-05-25T06:21:55.420-07:002012-05-25T06:21:55.420-07:00Let's see - muddled communication followed by ...Let's see - muddled communication followed by arrogance and condescension - not still not much Christian spirit there then.<br /><br />If that's what you wanted why didn't you ask for it more clearly?<br /><br />Brace yourself.<br /><br />I don't see a need for an ontological explanation because my steps 1 to 4 work therefore I am happy to take them as my foundation.<br /><br />Just as I would be happy to state that I don't know why we have a universe or exactly how it all came about, and that I can't logically prove an ontological foundation for logic. It all seems to work and I am happy to work on that basis. I don't see the need to invent other steps for no reason just to fill in some gaps.<br /><br />Are you going to critique them or address any of the other points raised or address the questions I raised about the actual post<br /><br />You really are being unnecessarily unpleasant. Are you someone trying to make christians look bad?<br /><br />PsiPsiloiordinaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235629211359287564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3540071429816533590.post-48606000952343634232012-05-24T23:32:19.579-07:002012-05-24T23:32:19.579-07:00Let me see if I can't do the Christian thing h...Let me see if I can't do the Christian thing here. <br /><br />You appear to me to be confused.<br /><br />The problem:<br /><br />You have given an epistemologic answer to an ontological question.<br /><br />This makes your answer a non sequitur. <br /><br />Understand? <br /><br />I am not saying that you as an atheist can not use logic and reason to deduce right from wrong. <br /><br />I am saying that as an atheist you have no rational foundation for a belief that right and wrong exist.<br /><br />If you can satisfactorily answer the question you'll become the most famous atheist philosopher of our age. And I'll bet with only a cursory knowledge of philosophy. Imagine that lol.camhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10115055485214265764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3540071429816533590.post-43153010951175637422012-05-24T23:18:48.354-07:002012-05-24T23:18:48.354-07:00So you go from this:
As a self professed Atheist ...So you go from this:<br /><br />As a self professed Atheist you have no intellectual foundation upon which to rest the existence of an objective right and wrong.<br /><br />To this:<br /><br />You can differentiate between good and evil, right and wrong, good for you. Never doubted it for a second. That's not the problem an atheistic world view faces. <br /><br />Back to this:<br /><br />Upon what intellectual foundation do you rest a belief in the objective existence of right and wrong?<br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br />In the piece I linked to I told you that <br /><br />1) by thinking about it carefully, <br />2) talking to other people and <br />3) by living in and contributing to a democracy and<br />4) always being prepared to go back to point 1) and think again in case I got it wrong,<br /><br />I work out my moral framework. <br /><br />This is my foundation. <br /><br />You seem happy to accept it works.<br /><br />You just don't want to define it as a foundation. <br /><br />Tough. <br /><br />You'll need to engage with the topic and not just argue about your own self appointed definitions.<br /><br />Care to actually engage with that argument? Or are you just going to claim it doesn't count because it doesn't feature your god? You do realise that this doesn't address my points don't you?<br /><br />Your own behaviour towards me has been insulting, rude and prejudiced. Any idea just ironic it is that you are telling me I have no moral foundations?<br /><br />e.g. People taking their faith as a moral foundation both supported and opposed slavery, it took quite a while to drop from 100% support to about 50% support - the very few secularists who dared to declare their non-faith at the time where much more likely to be against it. Where were your foundations then? Was that just random chance or does this mean that thinking about the issues make it more likely to get the right answer? I think it did. If you don't then explain why.<br /><br />You also ignore all the points I make in my piece pointing out what appear to be significant holes in your own claimed "foundations". Again no response at all. <br /><br />I will be happy to discuss these issues, that's partly why I am here, so why don't you?<br /><br />In the mean time I note you don't mention Augustine again - whoops. Did you not know he said that? What do you think of it? Is that not a clear indication that JM should be ashamed of his antics bringing scorn on christianity by his pseudo-scientific posturing?<br /><br />I'm happy to engage with the points made.<br /><br />- - -<br /><br />In the meantime, and back on topic, can anyone address the problems with JM's post that I point out in the first comment (preferably without throwing prejudice and insults around)?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />PsiPsiloiordinaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235629211359287564noreply@blogger.com